LAUREN CHAN

Tamu McPherson:

So much time has passed, and so many great things have happened. But with your hard work–we knew that you were a hustler from day one. How do you feel? 

Lauren Chan:

That means the world. You were always so kind to me when I was a baby editor at the shows trying to get a quote from people. And you were always, always, always the kindest person in the room, so it means the world to get a compliment from you. Things are good. It's been a whirlwind, but I'm just nearing the end of my first SI (Sports Illustrated) season, I guess we'll call it. In April we announced my “rookie ship”, induction to rookie hood, and then in May we launched the issue. And then just yesterday I got back to New York from swim week show and events. So it's been a long haul, but it's been incredible and I'm excited to get to sit and reflect on it.

Tamu McPherson:

There's a lot to reflect on. You are the modern day fashion entrepreneur and activist, in the sense that, like you said, you've come up from first being a model and then being an editor and then evolving with the market and the needs of the market. And you were always of service. Everything that you've done has come out of your desire to enhance the lives first of your readers and then of your clients and your supporters. Because the community that you created with Henning, you were servicing and creating for them. You are a fashion entrepreneur and I know that you're going to do even more amazing stuff in the future, but tell me about your experience. 

Lauren Chan:

You put it so beautifully. I think the phrase “of service” is so beautiful, and thank you for that. I realize that my career has had many different iterations, even sometimes back and forth, as you mentioned. I was a model and then I was editor, and then I was a model again, and then I was an entrepreneur, and then I was an influencer. And now I'm a Sports Illustrated rookie, which is technically a model. But the way I make sense of it is that all of the roles that I have had follow a North Star and my North Star is to, in your words, be of service and improve through representation and content and products, the lives of people who have been marginalized in fashion and thereby the larger world because of their size or orientation. And I do feel that all of my roles have been well aligned with that North Star, and that's probably because I wouldn't be interested in doing anything if it wasn't.

Tamu McPherson:

For sure. You need something that strong to guide you. We met a very long time ago, and I think that in our spaces, you and I were thinking and breathing our interests like size inclusion, or inclusion for BIPOC creatives, but it was a very, very different world. Apart from the humble work we did, I don't think we could get brands or larger publications to really give the coverage and the light that we needed. How do you feel today? And if you're seeing any shifts backwards, where do you think we are today compared to then? 

Lauren Chan:

That is such a good question, and of course when I'm speaking to a friend like you who fully understands all the nuances, there's so many ways to tackle that answer. One way that I haven't spoken as much about is that since 2020 and since the response to Asian hate, I have been working more than ever. I am surprised by that. But it is a welcome surprise because in my eyes, it's a response from the industry to the fact that Asian talent wasn't booking as much as other talent and that there was plenty of opportunity, we'll call it, to represent us more. That is a great sign. Another conversation I'm having in this space recently is about the regression in size inclusion at fashion month. I've been asked so much about that. I've been asked about the count of the models on the runway, celebrities losing weight, pharmaceuticals and folks are up in arms about the perceived regression in size inclusion. And to me, that's a good thing because first of all, I don't feel that size inclusion will be a linear journey in the market, in the culture in our world. I do have confidence in the fact that in this step backwards, everyone is saying, whoa, what's happening here? We're watching, we're clocking, we have sharp feedback and we're not going to let this happen. And so overall, I do feel that compared to 10 years ago, as you're referencing, we have become a more inclusive industry for sure. It just might have looked like the S&P. It'll go up over time, but sometimes it dips.

Tamu McPherson:

You're right. You're absolutely right. And you just pointed something out that I hadn’t previously processed the way that you just put forth. This Ozempic thing is all over the place. I am seeing it across social media because a lot of people are using it obviously, but I hadn't thought about it as related to the shrinking of the expansion that we had made up until last year. But you're absolutely right. Across the board in the United States, the backlash and the regression on so many levels is at peak. But thank you for pointing that out. 

How did your background and your upbringing impact your advocacy for inclusive fashion in general?

Lauren Chan:

I hadn't been asked this question until recently, and I've probably been asked it - including this time - two or three times maximum. And to be completely candid, I didn't think that my upbringing had much to do with my work now, my advocacy now, my passions now, but silly me because of course it does. And I've had time to really think about how, and at a quick glance, I would say that I grew up as an athlete. I played elite level basketball up through college, and those skills of being a team captain and a rower and a hard worker physically, and I think translate to being a voice and a CEO in my current sphere. On a deeper level, I grew up in a town where people were mostly white. And to my recollection, I was one of the only kids of color. And that made me feel very othered as a result. I spent a lot of time and energy trying to be like everyone else, look like everyone else, talk like everyone else, have the same experience as everyone else. And because I now feel that that time was wasted, and if I could go back and tell my younger self anything, it would be to lean into who I am and what makes me different and all of the joy of being unique. I can't do that. And so I guess I try to do that with my work.

Tamu McPherson:

I actually think it prepared you. I mean, you should have had a childhood where you were super confident about who you were and who your family was, et cetera, et cetera, and your super important place in your community. But I do think that it prepared you for the work that you do now because you had such an authentic lesson in feeling. That's probably why it's so natural for you to advocate in the way that you do. And so you have a crystalline clarity as you evolve in this industry. And maybe this is where the joy happens, you're growing into yourself, and maybe this is the time when you just continue to bloom.

Lauren Chan:

Thanks. I'm working it out in real time, but you are a perfect friend to chat about it with.

Tamu McPherson:

I do believe now a lot of times we definitely go through these experiences for a reason, but your blessings are so amazing that it might've been worth it. 

Lauren Chan:

Surely I would not take it back, because I do recognize how connected that is to what I do now, and hopefully the impact of that work. I've been focused as well on my mental health and being in therapy and a lot of wellness practices over the last year. As I piece that all together, I'm trying to be vulnerable as I do, and share that with my community as much as appropriate. 

Tamu McPherson:

We talk about mental wellness on social media a lot, but do you feel like there's a disconnect? Because I'm very positive on social media and I tend not to share, but I had a hard year. I'm better now, I came out of it, but when I tell people, they're shocked. They're like, you were depressed?? Yeah, I was depressed. I felt like I was standing on a tennis court and the machine that spits the balls out, all of them were coming at me. And before I felt everything, I know you're not supposed to compartmentalize your problems, but I think I used to do that.

Lauren Chan:

Sometimes you just want to lay down and let the tennis balls cover you because yeah, can't feel them after a while.

Tamu McPherson:

But it is so important to seek therapy and to talk to someone, not to just post or lean into what is this toxic positivity online. More of us are truly suffering than social media. Social media might actually cause it.

Lauren Chan:

You're making me think of something that I don't think I've said before. Stay with me here. We're in a shift of media. We're seeing Twitter and Threads and Instagram change, and TikTok maybe being banned. But the way that we share information there is… it can be so educational, but also so harmful. And because of the more advanced algorithms, all of that is fostering a toxic positivity in a lot of ways. And I think what we're also going to see in this shift of media is a return to conversations, a return to listening and more long form and genuine connection, hopefully in person. Again, because toxic positivity is unnatural, and we are craving conversations in which that is not the case.

I try to share what I'm going through when it's not positive, but in a way that is still work and social media appropriate, because social media is part of my work. Recently I read the comments on an article that covered a video of me speaking about how the beauty ideal is a falsehood. And the comments were horrible. They ranged from racist to transphobic to just the worst things that you can imagine a human would say to another. And I addressed it in my stories because it was upsetting to me and it helped me process it. But also I wanted to take that moment and think through why those comments are upsetting, what we can do about it, and why being vulnerable online is impactful. And so I didn't share the whole emotional story because some parts of that are personal and it isn't appropriate for Instagram stories. I would like my content to be truthful, vulnerable, but also rallying. So I try not to be toxically positive, but there is still, I don't know, a level of positivity in those moments that I share.

Tamu McPherson:

You're kind of encouraging me to maybe do a (IG) Live, because it was so overwhelming for me, I practice Theta Healing. So I don't have a clinical therapist. I have a Theta Healer who's really, really very gifted. That works well for me. Maybe I can talk about it, because the way I felt overwhelmed... Rachel Cargle for example-

Lauren Chan:

She speaks about grief a lot.

Tamu McPherson:

And with her organization the Loveland Foundation, they create funds and opportunities for therapy, but there are a lot of people who don't have access to therapy or don't have access to resources to get therapy. 

Lauren Chan:

If you're in a place where you are now reflecting back and saying, oh, this could help someone regardless of resource, even to just spark in somebody, I believe it’s worth it. Even if you just help one person.

Tamu McPherson:

Okay, let's talk about how your life is changing, and how you are evolving. This year, you came out as a lesbian. And one of your quotes in the article in Vogue was, “I've always been a lesbian. It just took me 30 years to realize it.” How did this interrupted identity impact your earliest formations of beauty for your young self?

Lauren Chan:

That's such a good question. I think the answer to that lies somewhere in the realm of: we get taught to look at the world as young women through the male gaze. There's a Margaret Atwood quote that I saw on TikTok recently. I'll have to paraphrase because I can't quite recall, but it's something to the effect of: women see the world through the eyes of a man in their mind because it is so deeply ingrained that in order to be beautiful, to your point or on a larger scale, valuable, successful or what have you have to be the kind of woman that a man wants. And so I tried to do that. I actually realized: I see beauty through the female gaze. I had become disconnected with the concept of beauty or what I looked like or what I physically felt like. I only realized that recently. And I've been learning how to get back into my body and how to see myself in a way that is actually through my own eyes, through a female gaze. I've been able to experiment a little bit with how I feel the most beautiful. But that's such a good question. And yeah, I haven't really been asked that before, but I think that that's what happened.

Tamu McPherson:

You’re right, the patriarchal society dictates so many aspects of our lives. How I'm supposed to be a mom, when the roles are so switched in my household. My husband is the one that's the doting parent. And don't get me wrong, I'm super doting. But what would stereotypically be something that I should do? My husband does. You have to identify those things, and you have to admit: that just doesn't work for me. And I'll never be good at that, because that's my personality. But in every aspect of your life, this presents itself. 

I really just love the way you grow as an entrepreneur. What do you imagine for the next decade–and the sky's the limit for you?

Lauren Chan:

Oh gosh. Part of me is like, I need a break. No growth, no more growth. Stop with the growth. But I'm really excited to be in a chapter where my business has been acquired. I can take a break from the tasks of a CEO, which as you know, range from the fun stuff like panels and making product to the not-so-fun stuff, like physically running samples around the garment district and figuring out supply chain problems on the phone with overseas in the middle of the night, and instead fill that time with some of the things that are happening as a result of also being on the Sports illustrated swimsuit stage, like community building conversations in podcasting and TV. I'm feeling very energized to leave my office more and connect and have an impact. And so we'll see. But I'm really excited about conversation, so I'm very excited about podcasting. I'm very excited about TV, and we'll see where it all goes.

Tamu McPherson:

You better take over the world.