Tamu McPherson:

Niki, tell us about your background. Where did you grow up? 

Niki Wu Jie:

I was born in Zheng Zhou in China, and I lived in China until I was 20. My city is the capital of the province in Hunan, like how Milan is the capital from Lombardia.  It's a huge city. 

Tamu McPherson:

And since it's in the center, you guys, how close are you to a beach or how close are you to a mountain? 

Niki Wu Jie:

China is a huge, so we're not close the beach, not close the mountain. To get to the beach it’s five or si hours by car. It’s really far. You can say my city’s close to Beijing, if you want know the position.

Tamu McPherson:

Okay. And how was it growing up there like that? Are you an only child? Do you have cousins? 

Niki Wu Jie:

I have cousins, but my mom, she has only me. I don't have sisters or brothers. 

Tamu McPherson:

Because you were born in the era that China had regulated one child per household? 

Niki Wu Jie:

Yes, the last generation, but my generation, I can have two or three babies. 

Tamu McPherson:

So what were your major influences growing up? Or do you have an influence that is really important to you? 

Niki Wu Jie:

Definitely my mom influenced me in my life in various ways. Thanks to her, I came to Italy to study, to live here and to realize my dreams. So, she influenced me a lot. 

Tamu McPherson:

How did you come up with the dream of moving to Italy? Like what were your influences that led you to choose Italy and Milan as a place that you wanted to pursue? 

Niki Wu Jie:

Well, to be honest, when I was younger, when I was working at 15 or 17 years old. I travelled a lot, so I met different people from a lot of different countries. They gave me a lot of ideas to explore. And there are different cultures from the different countries, so I was curious, and I wanted to discover them. So then I came to Milan to change, you know? Just to change to a different situation than in China.

Tamu McPherson:

And what did you study when you came here? 

Niki Wu Jie:

I came here, I studied at Accademia di Brera, set design. It is traditional Italian theater.

Tamu McPherson:

Why did you choose set design? 

Niki Wu Jie:

I studied art in China, I painted. I decided to try something a little bit different, but all connected, you know.  So I decided to try this, which was totally different, and also, you know, from Italy, very Italian, so I wanted to try it.

Tamu McPherson:

I can see that you studied art, and I can see that you studied set design in the imagery that you create for your work. And when I look at your social media feed, I know that you have a super specific and strong eye. You're super comfortable with working with an image. You can go from a super constructed image to like the perfect image that seems disorganized or chaotic, but I know that you know exactly what you're trying to communicate with that image. So everyone, if you're not already following her, follow her’ and see for yourself what I'm talking about. 

So, when you moved here, what were the biggest joys that you experienced as a young student? 

Niki Wu Jie:

The biggest joy at the beginning was feeling freedom. I love feeling free, because I feel in control of my life, you know what I mean? So I really enjoy that feeling. I love it. That's my biggest joy. I came to Italy myself, without my parents, nobody can help me. I didn’t have any friends. I studied Italian in Beijing for six months, and I can speak some Italian, but I mean, just the beginning, because you came to Italy and it’s different, the conversation. 

Tamu McPherson:

Because you come and you have to apply it. And it's very different when you actually have to apply it in the country where it's spoken officially. 

Niki Wu Jie:

Yeah. My mom influenced me a lot–she made me a strong and independent woman. I'm not afraid of anything. So, if I botch something when I speak, you can correct me now so you can understand me. I'm not afraid of that. If I don't understand something, I can ask my professor. 

Tamu McPherson:

And you studied Accademia di Brera, which is a leading arts university here, located in Brera. It's so beautiful. And so many really important artists studied there and also were teachers there. 

Niki Wu Jie:

My professor worked for La Scala. The director. For us, that’s really why we are there. To work there and to know the people are real professionals and have a lot of experience in their life. But after, it was another way.

Tamu McPherson:

In my experience, even when I was a street style photographer, the difference I noticed was with my fellow photographers who had studied fine art. I'm a little envious of those who studied art for this reason. I have to work so much harder to set up the shop, because it doesn't come naturally to me, because I didn't study photography. But my friends who studied art, they had a different vision. They also had a different perception of the lights. They had a different perception of the image composition. 

Niki Wu Jie:

Yeah. Also the composition. It totally different. I agree. Before I didn’t think so, but now, yes, it's true. 

Tamu McPherson:

Yes. And once you have that, even if you change, anything that you set your mind out to do, any other creative-related like job, you always can rely on the foundation you had at art school. 

Niki Wu Jie:

It always connects. Because the art with the job I do today, it is also connects. 

Tamu McPherson:

I agree. What were some of the things that you had to adjust to living here in Milan–and you moved here almost 11 years ago–that were different from your life in China? 

Niki Wu Jie:

The beginning for me was really difficult because Italian is another language just totally different. The alphabet is totally different, and it doesn't look like English. 

Tamu McPherson:

Speaking Italian and English, the pronunciation is completely different. 

Niki Wu Jie:

Also, the culture is totally different because in China we have the strong culture and so does Italy. Yes. Almost the 3,000 years here, and in China, we have almost 5,000 years. So we each have strong traditions. So, it's totally different for me. Also, the lifestyle, the food. But I love Italian food. Every small city has a different food. Also, you know, you have a lot of the islands and the beaches, so it's really nice. The life's totally different.

Tamu McPherson:

I've heard that the way of thinking and the way that you approach life in general on a cultural level in China, is completely different. Did it take a moment to adjust to the way that Italians think here, compared to the way that you think at home?

Niki Wu Jie:

Yes, it's true. They're totally different. For example, with my fiancé, because we always argue, I have a strong personality, because I have a strong background. And he has a strong personality, and a strong background, from Sicily.  So we always argue, we always have different opinions on small issues. And that culture difference reflects.

Tamu McPherson:

In how you both approach things. What angle you're coming from, what angle he's coming from. 

Niki Wu Jie:

Always, I mean, always. Especially for the small, small things, you know? For me, it's ridiculous. Why do you think this way? Why do you never have the same idea or opinions with me? Never. 

Tamu McPherson:

You're very demanding. You’re very demanding. And Southern Italians are super demanding. I feel like they're hot-tempered. I'll support you there, but I'm still on his team because you're really aggressive! 

Niki Wu Jie:

It's not true. I'm not. You're not invited in my home. No more wedding invite. 

Tamu McPherson:

I told you if you didn't invite me to the wedding, I was going to crash the wedding. And I said, I'm gonna destroy everything. 

Italy can be a very othering place. A portion of your 11 years here was during a global pandemic, which we know inspired people all around the world to attack Asian communities based on ignorance and based on ignorance related to the origins of the Coronavirus pandemic. What has your experience been as a Chinese woman living here? 

Niki Wu Jie:

To be honest, my close friends never made me feel uncomfortable. But generally speaking, in public situations, I feel sad and not at ease. For example, sometimes people look at me in a negative way because I'm Chinese and automatically connect me to the virus.  But when I feel sad, and I want to talk with someone, I can speak with Michael's friend. I can speak with you, I can speak with my fiancé, and also I can speak with my fiancé’s family, because they're in Italy. I have a second family here. So sometimes I feel I'm alone, because I didn't see my parents for three years. That’s a long time. My mom, she has only me. It was hard for me, but I'm lucky girl because I have you guys with me.

I feel I'm lucky. It was a hard pandemic for all, everybody in the world. But I'm lucky. 

Tamu McPherson:

And I think that's the thing that we always remember. Globally, we can find family, we can identify close friends as family. And I think that really is something that we all have to be grateful for. The fact that we can choose a second family when we can't be close to our biological family, because of distance or because of whatever the situation is. 

Niki Wu Jie:

But you know, that second family, that’s not your mom. It's different. When I’m alone and I’m stuck here, I'm really, really far from my family.  But sometimes you have to think another way. I have you guys, when I'm sad you’re close to me, you stay with me. The time that made me especially sad was during the Christmas holidays. And the summer vacation.  I'm here, I haven’t seen them. Chinese New Year is very traditional for us. It's really the one important festival vacation for us, the Chinese. The family is together. But I didn't see them for three years, and that was really hard. The support of my close friends here was what got me through the pandemic. It's super important, this support and this connectivity with family abroad. I think for the pandemic you needed, like, everything you could get.

Tamu McPherson:

What are some of the things that you're working on for the future? 

Niki Wu Jie:

I work in social media. I love fashion and I collaborate with a lot of incredible Italian and international brands. So I would love to create my business. But I prefer to follow my hobby. 

Tamu McPherson:

Oh, what's your hobby? 

Niki Wu Jie:

I mean, foodie. 

Tamu McPherson:

You're a foodie. We just came back from our Korea trip and everyone was like, did you shop? Did you discover this brand? No, but all day, all of the budget went to food. 

Niki Wu Jie:

I love it. Because the real Niki–if you know me–the real Niki is really simple. 

Tamu McPherson:

Not decked out in the latest high fashion. 

Niki Wu Jie:

I’m actually really simple. It's not complicated. What can make me really, really happy is simple food. So, I want to do something with food, you know? It’s a work in progress, but I'm very excited about this. Food is the part of the lifestyle–it’s the human part of life. We spend a lot of time shopping for food cooking–you need hours if you want to do something really delicious. It’s part of our life. It makes people happy. So, I want to focus there. 

And then I want to bring people together. I have so many different friends from different countries, and I want to bring them all together. I have an idea of where I want to do it, too. 

I think I could do that for my whole life, just making people happy and bringing people together. 

Tamu McPherson:

Niki, you mentioned before that you work with some of the most exciting luxury fashion brands in the world.  We’ve had a few tumultuous years. Things are in flux. We are evolving into the future. What's your vision? What do you hope for from these brands? 

Niki Wu Jie:

The fashion industry today and definitely is becoming more and more lifestyle, because the big brands are not only focusing on clothes but also expanding into different sectors. Home, music, art, travel, 360 degrees, it shows in every corner of our life, you know? 

Tamu McPherson:

You're going to see them showing up in more places that they haven't shown up before. 

Do you think that the brands have responsibility to the good of society, to encourage society to be more inclusive, to supporting, for instance, individuals with disabilities, to encouraging and sustaining the queer community, to ensuring that their businesses, and the world at large, are more diverse and more inclusive and more reflective of what society looks like? 

Niki Wu Jie:

Of course, they should have responsibility and the principles should reflect those of their client, and have the potential how to change the world. 

Tamu McPherson:

It's true.