Tamu McPherson:

Happy 15th anniversary.

Sherri McMullen:

Thank you, darling.

Tamu McPherson:

Mcmullen was born out of a big change for you. You left your very prestigious fashion job at a huge corporate fashion company, and you started an independently-funded boutique in the Oakland area, where there was very little luxury investment. Tell us about that experience and what you were thinking? 

Sherri McMullen:

Oh my gosh, yes. What was I thinking? I was working in this company and I was not feeling like I was valued, and I was overlooked for a long time. But I was working so hard just trying to make a name for myself and fit into this space, because there were very few of us at the company, very few Black people. And you know, I was working every day, all day to 1 a.m., figuring it out. And then I just became exhausted. I was tired of not feeling heard, and of working in this environment. And I wanted to create something for myself.

Tamu McPherson:

Yes. And I think a lot of people don't realize that in a fashion job when you're in the buying team, and the business team , those are the hours.  To this day, those are the hours. And to not be valued when you're there around the clock… is really demoralizing. Do you think that you brought that ex-  because I've seen you work with your teams - do you think that you bring that experience into your work environment every day and intentionally work to avoid making your team feel that way?

Sherri McMullen:

I never want my team to feel like how I felt working for other people.  I always said, when I hire people, I'm not gonna hire ‘Yes’ people. I don't want people to just tell me yes because they think that's what I want to hear. Like, yeah, we're just gonna agree with her because she's the boss. You know, I want people to have a point of view. And I always say that when I'm hiring people, I'm hiring you because I believe that you can bring something to my company. I wanna surround myself with talented people who can teach me, too. I'm leading a company, but the people who are doing the work, the people who are doing everything every single day are the people that I've hired. And so I don't expect anyone to work how I work. I mean, I work this way because it's my business and I'm so passionate about it. But I couldn't imagine anyone working like how I work. But my team works a lot because they believe in what we're doing, which is incredible. They're very passionate about the work we're doing.

Tamu McPherson:

What do you think about this generation's attention to work life balance? Because it's very different from our generation. I worked similar hours to you when I worked at a law firm right after grad school. I worked from 8 a.m. to 1 a.m., and I did that on repeat and often seven days a week. And I know that I have to let go of that experience in order to work with this generation. What would you, what advice would you give our generation to help transition us out of our experience? Honoring it, but setting ourselves up to be able to work with this new generation? 

Sherri McMullen:

Well, I would say flexibility is everything because people need flexible hours. You know, we're working with a lot of mothers, sometimes young moms, and they have to pick their children up. Some are nursing, some have demands of being a parent, and a parent first. And so for me, understanding the needs of our team and making sure they can work with our company has worked for us. We have someone who's worked with us for 14 years. Michelle, you know Michelle very well. So when she started with me, she had young kids. Her kids are now in college and graduated from college, but she had young kids, younger than Frederick. And she said, I wanna be a part of the company, but can you just work with me when the kids are out of school? Can I take off? I may not be there for the summers, but if you can work with me, I will be with you. And she's been with me for 14 years, because we have that understanding that I respect her needs and her boundaries, and she respects the needs of the business.

Tamu McPherson:

Do you think that this, the reason why you're able to do that is because you are a woman and you can empathize with other women, whereas in the male dominated industries, there's that lack of understanding and an unwillingness to understand that we can give 100 if our needs are addressed and accommodated. 

Sherri McMullen:

Absolutely. Can you imagine how businesses would shift if there was just a stronger understanding of needs, women's needs? Very simple.

Tamu McPherson:

The world would be a better place and businesses would thrive. They would absolutely thrive because it's not about the bottom line. Sustainability also means that when everyone within your company is doing well, it's doing well. And I guess that's something that women see and we have that vision and that vision is very natural to us because we are nurturing. And then that might be lacking sometimes in male-led businesses. 

So after you started your business, McMullen, 15 years ago, you really worked hard and early out, you were intentional. You knew that you had to do that in order to make a name for yourself, in order to distinguish yourself from the businesses that existed,  from the huge businesses, from where you came from. Why do you think your clients, who started with you from day one, what was it about your approach that enabled you to create a space of loyalty with them, and in order to make a name for yourself globally?

Sherri McMullen:

So when we started in 2007, it was all about the brick and mortar experience. So this was before social media, e-commerce, you remember E-luxury? E-Luxury was the first. So that just came out when we opened, but it was about the experience: customers coming into the store, getting to know them, getting to know their families, getting to know their lifestyle, their needs. And it became this safe space for women to be able to do that and come in and talk about what was important for them and for us to listen and help guide them through whatever they were going through, or whatever they needed from us. And I think that was really, you know, a part of developing these strong relationships with our clients. And that's why they continue to come back to us because, you know, we started as this space of, come in, experience us, let's get to know you become a part of our family. And we've continued to do that.

Tamu McPherson:

I know that you have worked tirelessly to bring brands into the store. And I know that that's about building relationships, and building relationships. That's a complex skill. It's not an overnight skill. It's about having tough skin. You know, when you believe in yourself and you know that you have the business vision and you have the taste level  and you know your clients so well.  You still go on your appointments with your entire team. You have your clientele in mind. Do you think that these larger establishments had any idea that you were gonna come up and be standing here today and giving them a run?

Sherri McMullen:

I don't think so. No, no, no. Especially this young Black woman, from Oklahoma, and with a store in Oakland, I don't think anyone in the beginning thought that this could be possible. Right? I mean, I was thinking about how we can bring these young designers, luxury designers to Oakland? And I knew we would be supported because there were so many entrepreneurs and so many business owners here that have been around for a really long time. So it was like, okay, this is the place we're gonna be because people will support business owners. And then I came into this space of trying to get brands and talking to them about my vision. And they were like, why Oakland? Why not San Francisco? Why not Palo Alto? Why not any other city outside of Oakland? And to this day, we still have to fight for certain brands, 15 years later, it's easier. It's become easier. But not a lot of people understood what we were trying to accomplish here. And really start to think about how we can shift this industry, and get people to think about embracing young designers in a really big way. 

It's like, we know that the big brand European companies, they have their following, but what about young American designers, even beyond American designers? What about just young talent across the globe?

And how can we really embrace those designers that don't necessarily know how to get into big box retailers? And what I share with them is: do you really need to be in big box retailers? You don't have to. You can go direct to consumers, you can work with us, you can work with smaller specialty stores that understand your brand. And it's really about that.

Tamu McPherson:

I mean, that's how we met. We met because someone who was working on your team reached out to me and asked me if I would co-host an event for an emerging designer, a young designer in New York. 

Sherri McMullen:

That's how we became friends. 

Tamu McPherson:

And I know that this entire time you have championed young designers because you connect with them, you understand them, and you understand what they need to become viable, strong businesses. You have always supported women designers, you have always supported BIPOC designers, and entrepreneurs in the area. How has your early work impacted the industry? For example, one of the events that we worked on together was the Christopher John Rogers trunk show here.   

Sherri McMullen:

McMullen was his first retailer. I saw his collection in February, 2019, and it was the four of them. And they were in a warehouse space on Canal. We were just talking about that recently. And they had the entire collection behind them. And I had a cold and I said, I'm gonna see this designer, I'm gonna get over there. This is before COVID. So it was just like the cold. And I saw the passion that they had and I saw that two piece face look and the strawberry dress. And I was blown away. And I was like, there's no one doing what he's doing. We have to do something for him. And then you and I were together that summer and we said, let's do something with Christopher. 

Tamu McPherson:

Was just as easy as that. And since then you have, you have helped him and countless other designers. I mean, you were carrying Maki Oh since before people knew about Maki Oh. You might have been the only retailer where she was carried in the United States. 

Sherri McMullen:

I discovered her brand just by being in a showroom. And they had this collection, this incredible collection squeezed together on one rack, and you know, her pieces, you need to see them.

Tamu McPherson:

Every look is a story.

Sherri McMullen:

Every piece, every piece. And so I started going through it. I'm like, tell me about this designer. They couldn't even tell me anything about her. They were like, oh, she's a Nigerian designer. And that was it. So I started having the models try on the pieces. I was taking pictures and I kept looking back on the pictures. Many times I do that with the designers that I see for the first time I go back and I review. I mean, it's easier with the brands that we carry, right? Yeah. So I just know I can just write the orders there. But some of the new designers, I have to go back and look at them and just see, is this gonna be a good fit for us? Does this make sense? Like talking to them about production and all the things, just the business side of it to make sure that's all buttoned up. And I kept going back to her collection. I was like, this is exquisite. The craftsmanship, like knowing that someone is doing this work by hand. Hand-dyeing gorgeous dresses that I will love for 20, 30 years. 

Tamu McPherson:

Because they're, they're not trendy. They're special. 

Sherri McMullen:

And they take so long to make. And I think people really appreciate that. I mean, that's the ultimate luxury.

Tamu McPherson:

Yes. And you are a fashion business entrepreneur and you understand, especially with your very corporate background, that the bottom line is usually what's driving the buying decision. Whereas you are really taking into consideration the art. The craftsmanship. The work that goes into it. The storytelling that goes into it. And I think we are in a period where that's lacking. I mean, I get it. I understand growth, scaling, all of those important things in business. But you miss the style.

Sherri McMullen:

And how can we scale responsibly, right? I mean there's, it's one thing to scale and buy in bulk, right? Fast fashion in and out, turning product. A lot of products five weeks, four weeks. But that's not the business that we're in, and that's not the business that is good for our environment, right? How much do we really need? We need beautiful things that are gonna last us a lifetime. We wanna support designers who are making an impact. We wanna support designers who feel very passionate about their craftsmanship. We wanna give opportunities to those brands who need it.

Make space for them. Make a lot of space. You know, not 10%, it doesn't have to be a number tied to it. Make as much space as we can for those brands.

Tamu McPherson:

Absolutely. 

Sherri McMullen:

So Tamu, as a content creator, you have been very intentional about making space for young designers, especially young designers of color. Why was that so important for you?

Tamu McPherson:

Well, as a person of color, it only makes sense. It feels very natural to create spaces and to give visibility to people who look like me. If you're my sister, if you're my friend, we grew up together so I don't, I don't know how else you would go about it. So it feels 100% natural to me, especially because I have a platform to share my platform with creatives who absolutely deserve to have their work in every top retailer around the world. So I wouldn't really know any other way to do it. I just wouldn't. I mean to showcase this incredible talent only feels natural. 

And having had the absolute blessing and fortune to work with luxury brands, I know that these designers that I lend a space to, I know that they could lead any of these companies.  And so by showcasing their work, by lending a hand to them by making sure that their work is seen outside of the spaces where they currently are, I know that just by contributing this way, that you know, more people will see their work. And hopefully they will be able to compete and get these positions. I mean, we don't have to go into these spaces, but at the end of the day, we always seek validation. And why not? So for me it's a two-prong situation. If they can't reach a luxury house, and they stay within our community and we create our own communities, well we all need to know that they're there.

And we all need to support them. But I know that something that is really undeniable, something that we really cannot avoid is the fact that we all wanna play and we all wanna be seen, and that's the truth.  So if I can lend a hand and if I can give exposure on my platform to designers of color, then I'm absolutely gonna do it. I'm, I am so, so fortunate to be able to communicate to a somewhat large audience. Why not help? I win when my people win. So why not?

Sherri McMullen:

Why not?

Tamu McPherson:

Like we've come out of the pandemic, we have come out of the aftermath of George Floyd's - and many other people of color's - death at the hands of the police. What are we gonna do? What do we need to do to make sure that the gains that we made with these brands during that moment of turmoil are really furthered? Are really furthered or really honored, and really bring around change, what do we need to do?

Sherri McMullen:

Well, what do we do? I mean, from a consumer standpoint, I think consumers really are thinking differently about how they're spending and who they're spending with. I feel that because I've been in the business for a really long time and I'm finding that customers are seeking companies and brands like mine, because they do wanna support a female-led (business), a Black entrepreneur, and they want to discover those brands that we carry. And I'm seeing that from all races. So I do think that people are thinking differently, which is a good thing. And so it's important for us and the industry to make sure that we continue to highlight the brands that are important to us, and keep telling their stories and telling our own stories so that more people know, and they can discover us. I mean, we can use our dollars for change. Like we all know that we can decide how we're gonna spend and who we're gonna spend it with, if it aligns with who we are. And I think that is the direction that is the future of the industry. At least, that's what I'm hoping for.

Tamu McPherson:

I think that they have basically shifted back into old ways, and, you know, it's all about business. Moving forward. But I think that they underestimate, like you said, our attention and our consideration and the things that are important to us… because most of the time it is very much you know, a PR kind of stance and it's forward-facing. For me, it seems to be that way. No one's holding the fire under their feet.  And so there's less pressure now. And I don't think that they realize that we haven't shifted from our desire. It might not be as intense, but tomorrow we will wake up and we will still actually want the brands that we support to be more intentional and thoughtful and considerate about their staff members.  

Sherri McMullen:

And I'm interested in, especially with big brands that I support, even just lifestyle, household goods, everything. I'm now Googling to see who's on their board. Because I don't wanna give my money to the wrong people. You know, and I've been really surprised to see who's leading companies.

Tamu McPherson:

Surprised in a positive way or in a negative way?

Sherri McMullen:

In a negative way. I mean, they're companies that we have worked with for just our basic things for the store. And then I realized who they were supporting and I'm like, we can't support that. And millions of dollars go to this company because they're one of the few. So we've gotta find an alternative quickly.

Tamu McPherson:

The great thing is that there are independent fashion entrepreneurs like yourself who are getting the attention that you deserve, whose clientele is very loyal that can shift the conversation. And that can add value to the category of business that you have. And it is an alternative to these larger brands who are not as thoughtful in their business.  So I think women like you really offer the hope that we need for the future and going forward. And cheers to your 15th anniversary.